Chapter 68.4

On March 10th, 2021, Chicago Sun-Times journalist Miriam Palmer sat down for an hour-long interview with local entrepreneur Ron Forester. Among other topics, they discussed the rise of gambling in modern day America, specifically the prominence of sports betting.

Born and raised in Chicago, Ron Forester is the founder and CEO of the nonprofit organization GAME (Gambling Addiction Mediation and Education).

The following excerpt has been edited for clarity.

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Miriam: —as fascinating as that is, I have a feeling our readers might grow bored if we do nothing but discuss tax policy.

Ron: I imagine they might! Please, ask anything you like.

Miriam: Sports betting has been a hot topic these days. It feels like everywhere I look, I’m seeing ads for the dozens of different apps out there. They’ve integrated themselves as sponsors at nearly every level of play, and some people worry that there aren’t enough safeguards in place to protect the average person. What is GAME’s stance on this?

Ron: Well, at the risk of sounding a bit stiff, I could easily just read out the mission statement plastered all over our website.

(Laughter)

At the end of the day, we’re just trying to encourage people to have fun and be responsible while they do. GAME focuses all its energy on helping people that feel they’ve fallen into addictive behaviors. Could we try to push for legislative changes? I mean, maybe, but we’re also trying to be practical. Even if we had all the money in the world and could lobby Congress to pass some kind of gambling safety act, it would take years. GAME is helping real people, right now, across the country.

Miriam: It’s interesting that you say that. Do you feel that this lack of legislative motivation is at all fueled by your personal investments in the gambling market?

Ron: I’m sorry?

Miriam: One of my colleagues here at the Sun-Times recently discovered that, in addition to running GAME, you also own and operate a casino in Ekstápoli called Tyche’s Paradise. That casino boasts an incredibly robust betting app of its own: Pactolus Sports Betting. Do you feel this represents a conflict of interest?

(Editor’s Note: At this point, the interview paused for approximately thirty minutes. During this time, Mr. Forester spoke with several of his attorneys.)

Ron: My apologies for the brief hiccup.

Miriam: We were discussing the potential conflicts of interest between your companies and your nonprofit. What are your thoughts on that?

Ron: I understand why those accusations feel authentic, but they don’t stand up to scrutiny. [The United States Supreme Court] legalized sports betting, what, three years ago? Since then, gambling has exploded all across the country. Corporations are doing everything in their power to push gambling as hard as they can, and state legislature simply can’t keep up. So, in that absence, I’m trying to do what I can.

Miriam: Through GAME, you mean?

Ron: Exactly. Look, I love gambling. I think it’s great fun, and can be a really exciting way to spend your free time. I’m also not an idiot; I know it’s addictive. I’ve seen firsthand how easily gambling can ruin people’s lives. Yes, I want to give people a safe way to gamble, but I also want to make sure they’re not throwing their lives away. By operating GAME alongside my other ventures, I have direct access to the habits of tens of thousands of gambling citizens. Information I wouldn’t have if I didn’t own Pactolus and Tyche’s Paradise.

(Editor’s Note: Mr. Forester’s comments here do not represent the exact legal structure of GAME, Tyche’s Paradise, or Pactolus Sports Betting. Information exchanged between these entities, as well as Mr. Forester’s involvement in proceedings, is fully compliant with both state and federal regulations.)

Miriam: So you freely exchange information between your for-profit and non-profit organizations?

Ron: I do. I have a robust team of specialists dedicated to looking for signs of gambling addiction. We look at spending habits, presumed yearly income, things like that.

Miriam: Can you give an example of what that might look like?

Ron: I’ll do my best, though there are some specifics I’ll have to avoid. I won’t give away my trade secrets, and [my lawyers] have advised me not to get too technical.

(Laughter.)

Anyways, let’s imagine an everyday gambling citizen. Our John Doe visits the casino once a month, but he uses [the Pactolus] app every time he’s watching a game. People much smarter than me have put together software that can flag specific behaviors as uncharacteristic. Large spikes in spending can sometimes represent desperation, as an example. It’s not happening behind the scenes, either. Registered users can also volunteer their yearly income, set limits on their own behavior, stuff like that.

So, John Doe suddenly starts spending more than usual. Combined with other flags in the system, we decide he’s displaying unhealthy behavior. Reaching into the app, we manually disable his ability to make bets. Once this happens, betting cannot be reenabled until Mr. Doe speaks with one of our counselors.

Miriam: How often does something like that happen?

Ron: On average? Maybe five-to-six times a month. We see large spikes during big games and holiday seasons, of course. Offering up additional information is always voluntary, but we have incentives in place to encourage people to gamble responsibly. As an example, we offer complimentary tokens to users that share their yearly income, set betting limits, things like that.

Miriam: What happens when you find people that genuinely are struggling with gambling addiction or compulsion?

Ron: We try to guide them towards in-person group counseling. GAME has locations in all sorts of cities, and our hope is that fostering a community can help combat the desperation that sometimes leads to gambling addiction. For the worst-case scenarios, the people that have a truly crippling problem, we’ll try to start up one-on-one counseling sessions. We hope to address the root cause, wean people off gambling, but GAME also partners with financial advisors for people that have lost too much money.

Miriam: Would Pactolus or [Tyche’s Paradise] ever consider refunding the money lost in these situations?

Ron: That would be the dream, wouldn’t it? Unfortunately, the reality of gambling, especially sports betting, is far more complex than people realize. Our number one priority is to empower the next decision people make, rather than dwelling on the past.

(At this point, the conversation shifted to other topics. For the full transcript, please visit the Chicago Sun-Times website.)