Chapter 348: The True Conflict Between Confucianism and Legalism

Sima Guang grew somewhat anxious. I only asked you to discuss the study of litigation. How could this have anything to do with incompetent emperors?

Wang Anshi also felt a hint of unease. If this young man separated the law of Legalism from law generally, then in the future, many of my reforms would lack legal justification. In fact, your theory of law might be used to trap me completely.

Emperor Zhao Xu, however, listened with great interest. Just like the students, he was engaged in the lecture. After a while, he noticed that many ministers were glancing at him furtively. He glanced back at them and asked in a low voice, “Do you think he is mocking me?”

The ministers hastily shook their heads in denial. After all, who would dare to say such a thing out loud!

Yet in their hearts, they all wondered. It did not matter whether the allegation was true or not; what mattered was that his words cast doubt on the authority of the emperor. Should they simply let him continue?

These ministers were filled with dread, but the students, untested and fearless, had never experienced the terror of political persecution for their words. To them, there was nothing they could not say, and they were already fully immersed in their debate with Zhang Fei.

Shangguan Jun asked directly, “What does a tyrant or a corrupt official to do with the systemic law?”

“Of course it has something to do with it, very much so. Let us first sort out the details.”

Zhang Fei stepped up to the wooden board. As he wrote the words “the law of Legalism” on it, he said, “As I explained just now, the the law of Legalism is the method by which the ruler and his ministers govern and administer the state.”

Then he wrote further below about systemic law, stating: “The law of the legal system is a broad consensus on defending individual rights. But when the interests of the ruler and the ruled clash, under an incompetent ruler or a corrupt official, it is usually the law of the Legalism that prevails. Just think about it—do they not destroy the law of the legal system with complete impunity? To put it more plainly, they infringe upon others’ legitimate rights at will. On the other hand, under a sage ruler and worthy ministers, it is usually the law of the legal system that prevails. Is that not the logic?”

Cai Bian said, “While that logic holds, it only proves that it depends on the person.”

Zhang Fei nodded with a smile, “Correct, it depends on the person. Now look again at the definition of the law of the legal system: a consensus on defending legitimate individual rights. By this reasoning, this already exists as an objective reality. Yet whether it is given effect still varies from person to person. Tell me, is the law of the Legalism greater, or the law of the legal system?”

Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, and the others all nodded slightly.

They did not agree with Zhang Fei’s point, but they understood what he was saying.

Systemic law existed objectively, yet varied depending on the person. Whether right or wrong, good or bad, it was purely subjective.

This was enough to prove that the subjective overrode the objective.

In other words, the law of the Legalism outweighed the law of the legal system.

Cai Bian frowned and said, “If I follow your logic, does the Legalists’ principle that ‘the law does not bow to the noble’ not amount to advocating your ‘systemic law’?”

Zhang Fei replied, “The principle itself is not wrong, but if placed within the framework of Legalist thought, it is an error compounded by another, becoming even more egregious.”

“Why is that?” Cai Bian asked with curiosity.

Zhang Fei said, “You must look at the motive behind the statement. A knife can be a weapon for killing people, or a practical tool for slaughtering pigs. The Legalists’ ‘the law does not bow to the noble’ was not about protecting people’s legitimate rights and interests; such a concept simply does not exist in Legalism.

What the Legalists meant was ‘everyone, including nobles, shall obey the rules I set’. Put more plainly, it means that everyone is my slave, and I say what to do, and you do it. Such regulations were commonplace in the laws of Qin.”

Cai fell silent again, lost in thought.

This question seemed to grow more complex the more it was examined.

Ye Zuqia suddenly asked, “According to you, is it sufficient to simply follow your ‘systemic law’ to govern the realm well?”

Zhang Fei smiled and said, “The way you phrase it, it sounds as if this were very simple.”

Ye Zuqia looked puzzled and said, “It is not complicated.”

The others nodded in agreement.

It did sound quite simple!

To follow the rule of law—how hard could that be!

Zhang Fei asked, “If His Majesty were to say or do something wrong, would you dare to remonstrate?”

The group could not help but look toward Emperor Zhao Xu, only to find him lost in serious thought, completely unaware of them.

One could only say that this young emperor was not one who easily took offence.

Ye Zuqia lifted his head and said, “Why would I not dare?”

Zhang Fei asked again, “How would you remonstrate?”

Ye Zuqia paused for a brief moment in thought before replying, “Naturally, by appealing to reason.”

“What kind of reason?”

“The reason of the Sage.”

“Exactly!”

Zhang Fei nodded. “This is the very essence of Confucian law. If you find this easy, it can only mean one thing: you are superior to Confucius himself.”

Ye Zuqia responded with alarm, “How would I dare compare myself to the Sage?”

Zhang Fei said, “Then why did you claim this was not complicated?”

Ye Zuqia was momentarily stunned, but then he quickly replied, “I do not believe this is the essence of Confucian law.”

Zhang Fei took up his brush and wrote the words “Confucian Law” on the wooden board. Between the two types of law, he wrote “Song Code of Punishments.” He then asked, “In your opinion, do the legal commentaries in the current Song Code of Punishments lean more toward the law of Legalism, or toward the law of Confucianism?”

This…!

The students hesitated, unable to decide.

Judging by the name Song Code of Punishments, it seemed more aligned with the law of Legalism. This had been common sense before, but now that common sense was beginning to be distorted.

Suddenly, a hoarse voice was heard. “If we follow your argument, the law of Confucianism is actually more inclined toward systemic law.”

Zhang Fei looked up. The speaker was no one other than Fu Bi.

The old man seemed to be absorbed in the discussion as well, for he had started to answer questions.

It came back to this: in fact, when Zhang Fei had just dodged the question, it was not entirely out of a desire to belittle scholarship. This lesson was truly unsuitable for these students; it was more fitting for men like Fu Bi and Wen Yanbo.

“Lord Fu makes a valid point.”

Zhang Fei cupped his hands in a bow and continued, “Why is it more aligned with the law of Confucianism? Because Confucianism deals in secular reason. Take, for example, the principle of letting someone conceal a family member’s crime. Legalism would certainly not endorse such a practice.

Yet when it comes to human nature, if a son were to inform against his father, or a father against his son, it would be extremely likely that they were being forced to lie. Even a tiger does not devour its own cub!

Although extinguishing personal ties for the sake of great righteousness is not considered wrong, protecting one’s own kin is a natural instinct and a widespread consensus. It fits the definition of systemic law.

You all grew up studying Confucian classics. Think about the principles Confucianism teaches. Does it not instruct you how to distinguish good from evil, and how to do good?”

The group nodded one after another.

Zhang Fei said, “A person of high moral character has a very low chance of breaking the rule of law. However, a Legalist would inevitably break the rule of law, because Legalism requires the elimination of the rule of law; otherwise, it is not Legalism. Shang Yang had a quote that very clearly and accurately expressed the Legalist view of law.”

With this, he finally opened the small notebook on the desk. “‘The intelligent make laws, the foolish are governed by them; the virtuous change rituals, the mediocre are bound by them.’ But this idea is completely opposed to the rule of law.”

Shangguan Jun said, “This shows that Confucian law is superior to the Legalist law, and also superior to systemic law.”

Hearing this, Zhang Fei raised his left hand to rub his forehead, his face full of disappointment.

Shangguan Jun was truly anxious. After this lesson, he had begun to doubt his life. “Have I said something wrong again?”

Zhang Fei looked at him indifferently and said weakly, “First, tell me why you think that.”

Shangguan Jun said, “A person of high moral character naturally will not break the law, but a person who obeys the law may not necessarily be of high moral character. Therefore, Confucian law is superior to systemic law, and even more superior to Legalist law.”

Zhang Fei glanced around. “Do you all agree with him?”

Many of the students were already confused and dared not answer rashly.

Yan Fu suddenly stepped forward. “That is exactly what I believe. How can there be anything wrong with that?”

His tone was extremely arrogant.

Bang bang bang!

Zhang Fei suddenly struck the wooden board hard.

Yan Fu flinched. Was this boy crazy?

Zhang Fei did not care about any of that. If you were going to show off in my classroom, had you even considered my feelings? How could you do such a thing? “I have already emphasized this time and again. Systemic law is a consensus among people to defend their legitimate rights and interests.

Is the Confucian law such a consensus? No. It is what Confucius says. As Shang Yang also said, the intelligent make the laws, and the foolish are governed by them.”

Yan Fu grew urgent and shouted, “Confucian law is superior to systemic law, so as long as one obeys Confucian law, one would naturally comply with systemic law.”

Zhang Fei smiled and asked, “Does the old gentleman not feel that this is self-contradictory?”

Yan Fu asked, “Where is the contradiction?”

Zhang Fei said, “You said that Confucian law is superior to systemic law. Therefore, following Confucian law would mean not violating systemic law, correct?”

Yan Fu nodded and said, “Exactly.”

Zhang Fei said, “If that is the case, then why do you say that one does not need to observe the principles of systemic law, is that not a self-contradiction? If you cannot even adhere to the most basic standards, how can you attain higher ones?”

Yan Fu froze, his mind momentarily muddled by the circular logic.

Yet upon closer reflection, something still seemed off.

Wen Yanbo suddenly stepped forward and said, “You are using clever sophistry. Elder Yan certainly does not mean that. What he intends to say is that following the law of Confucianism inherently means observing the principles of systemic law, and indeed reaching a higher standard.”

Yan Fu nodded vigorously. “Precisely, precisely. You young man are truly adept at sophistry; you have left me quite confused. The learning of Confucianism is, in fact, the common sense of the world. Since law derives from virtue, virtue naturally also follows the consensus you described.”

Zhang Fei asked, “Is that so?”

Wen Yanbo replied with great confidence, “Of course it is.”

Zhang Fei asked, “Does the rule that demeaning punishment does not apply to scholar-officials count as Confucian law? And does it observe the principles of systemic law?”

“…!”

Wen Yanbo was left speechless.

All the students gazed at him.

The old man’s face slowly turned red.

When commoners break the law, they lose their lives. When scholar-officials encounter the law, the law disappears.

Tell me, is that not so?

An old man spoke to Emperor Zhao Xu with agitation: “Your Majesty, this man spews heresy. He is gravely treasonous. I beg Your Majesty to punish him immediately.”

Immediately, another group of scholars stepped forward, demanding that Zhang Fei be severely punished.

Emperor Zhao Xu, however, smiled with an expression of ease: “This is merely an academic debate. Scholar Cen, you need not take it too seriously.”

Wang Anshi chuckled: “Scholar Cen’s words only serve to confirm his arguments on Confucian law.”

Scholar Cen dared not show displeasure before the emperor, so he could only glare at Wang Anshi with anger.

Zhang Fei had listened clearly and hurriedly explained: “Old gentleman, please do not get angry. I am actually praising Confucianism, not denying it. I am merely using a technique of first suppressing then elevating. Please do not be impatient, everyone!”

The group of scholars all glared at Zhang Fei.

We do not believe you!

“Demeaning punishment does not apply to scholar-officials ” — you dare to bring that up? This is not just about pulling down our undergarments; this is an attempt on our lives!