Chapter 347: The Debate Over Two Types of Laws

Zhang Fei flung the charcoal stick and shot out the door!

He executed a dramatic spin, catching everyone present completely off guard.

To Emperor Zhao Xu and the others, it seemed the lesson had only just begun.

The claim that the Qin dynasty had no law was, indeed, rather novel.

They had barely caught a glimpse of its significance, and there he was, gone.

“Oh!”

Emperor Zhao Xu couldn’t help but raise his hand, wanting to call Zhang Fei back, but in the end, constrained by imperial dignity, he lowered it again.

Sima Guang, however, was not so subtle. He glowered and blocked the doorway.

“What are you doing?”

“Academician Sima, this class truly does not suit me. They do not even understand basic legal common sense. The thing is… I am not entirely clear on the details myself. I can only teach students who have some foundation and share my experience.”

Zhang Fei complained, his face etched with frustration.

Is this basic common sense? I do not understand it either! Sima Guang glanced at Zhang Fei. “With so many watching, no matter what, you must finish this lesson.”

After saying this, he added in a low voice, “It is enough if you manage the basics. His Majesty is still here.”

He knew perfectly well what Zhang Fei was doing.

Revenge!

This boy looked magnanimous on the surface, and his words were quite pleasant to hear, but in reality, his mind was very petty… He truly held a grudge over the smallest slight!

With so many men blocking the doorway, all of them chancellors, how could he leave? He was deliberately humiliating those students.

He was turning their own methods back against them.

Zhang Fei nodded in a pained manner and said, “Fine, I will finish this lesson. But in the future, I am going to replace this group of students. I really cannot handle them.”

Sima Guang said nothing; he just frowned and stared at him.

Zhang Fei turned around awkwardly and returned to the podium. His gaze swept back and forth across the faces of the students, and then he suddenly let out a long sigh.

Ye Zuqia, Shangguan Jun, Cai Jing, Cai Bian, and the others had never been treated with such disdain.

It was painful!

They wanted to cry!

Ye Zuqia could not bear it any longer. He stood up and said, “You deliberately spoke of the legal system and Legalism in a vague and confusing manner. Your intent was to humiliate us. It is unworthy of a teacher.”

The others nodded in agreement one after another.

“Vague and confusing?”

Zhang Fei was stunned. Surprised, he said, “No… that cannot be. You still have not understood what I said?”

“I…”

Ye Zuqia parted his lips slightly. His fair face slowly turned red.

Are we really just too stupid?

Is it really that simple?

Let me think for a moment.

It was not just him. Many of them shared the same thought.

Emperor Zhao Xu asked Wang Anshi in a low voice, “Did you understand?”

Wang Anshi shook his head slightly, a hint of embarrassment in his expression.

Emperor Zhao Xu let out a breath of relief. Good, good, it was not that I was too foolish.

Cai Bian said, “Please forgive our dullness for not understanding. We hope our teacher will clear up the confusion in our hearts.”

But his tone was sharp, as if implying, if you are so capable, why don’t you explain it clearly?

They all felt the fault lay not with them, but with Zhang Fei, who simply could not explain things clearly.

“All right! I will explain it clearly to you. Sigh… I suppose time is passing, and how else could this lesson be completed!”

Zhang Fei shook his head in resignation. He leaned back against the podium and asked Cai Bian, “Who told you that you must not steal things from other people’s homes?”

Cai Bian froze for a moment. “I… my parents.”

Zhang Fei asked again, “Who told you not to pick fights with others?”

Cai Bian replied, “My parents.”

Zhang Fei continued, “And who told you that you must not snatch things from others?”

“My parents,” Cai Bian said.

Zhang Fei paused for a moment. “How is it that your parents taught you everything? Are they sages?”

His parents are also my parents! Cai Jing, sitting as the eldest brother, became uneasy. He believed Zhang Fei was deliberately insulting his parents and immediately said, “This is common sense. What does it have to do with whether our parents are sages?”

“Exactly!”

Zhang Fei pointed at Cai Jing. “This is common sense. To be precise, it is a piece of common sense and consensus formed from our life experiences.

It was not taught to us by Confucius, nor by Mencius, and certainly not something that Li Kui, Shang Yang, or Han Feizi came up with through their own wisdom.

Even a peasant who cannot read a single character knows that stealing, deception, and swindling are wrong.”

Saying this, he snapped his fingers. “This is the ‘law’ of a legal system, systemic law. This ‘law’ is born from our consensus and common sense. Why does this consensus exist? It stems from our protection of self-interest. Therefore, the ‘law’ of the legal system must also defend the legitimate rights and interests of every individual.”

As soon as these words left his mouth, the listeners felt a sense of sudden clarity.

Fighting and stealing are written in the Classic of Law, but Li Kui did not invent them. They have always existed, even before the term “law” was used.

This was self-protection, which was fundamentally a personal matter. However, when this need became a widespread consensus, it gave rise to law.

Li Kui merely categorized and refined these laws.

It was not that he first decided that stealing was wrong, told others that stealing was wrong, and then gradually had them accept it.

“I see.”

Emperor Zhao Xu nodded slightly and added in a low voice, “This explanation is truly refreshing!”

Lu Gongzhu questioned, “But doesn’t this seem like over-generalizing?”

Fu Bi couldn’t help but chime in, “Let’s see how he explains Legalism.”

Lu Gongzhu immediately looked somewhat embarrassed.

His criticism of over-generalizing failed to distinguish between the Legalism and the legal system.

Cai Bian’s face also gradually took on an expression of awkwardness.

“Then the question is.”

Zhang Fei suddenly asked, “Does Shang Yang’s Compulsory Farming Law count as common sense, or rather, a consensus among people?”

The group of students shook their heads.

Zhang Fei said, “What about the system of collective liability for groups of ten and five?”

The students continued to shake their heads, but the mood certainly wasn’t enthusiastic.

Zhang Fei said, “Do they count as law or not?”

“……!”

Do they not count?

Do they count?

According to their common sense, of course they counted as law.

But at this moment, no one dared to answer this simple question.

“Sigh…”

Zhang Fei let out another sigh.

For some reason, whenever he sighed, his students felt a knot tighten in their chests.

They all looked around, wishing the ground would open up and swallow them.

Zhang Fei said, “There’s a saying, what is it? When a man dies, something ceases…!”

“His policy!”

One quick-witted student answered.

“Right. When a man dies, his policy ceases.”

Zhang Fei nodded. “But in what kind of situation is this phrase usually used?”

“Reform and change.”

“Correct.”

Zhang Fei nodded again. “It starts with reform, but ends with the new policy ceasing. How do you explain that? It is because of the laws and decrees promulgated by figures like Shang Yang. More accurately, they were administrative orders, not laws in the true sense.”

As he spoke, he picked up a charcoal stick and walked to the wooden board. “Except in some very special cases, most of the time, we can distinguish between ‘law’ as a system of rights and ‘law’ in the Legalist sense. The former arises from people’s need to protect their legitimate rights, or rather, it is a matter of common sense, even a widespread demand.”

As he spoke, he drew an arrow pointing upward from bottom to top.

Then, on the right side, he drew another arrow pointing downward from top to bottom. As he drew, he said, “The Legalist kind of law is a set of methods used by the monarch and ministers to govern the state. You should be able to tell the difference between common sense and methods, right?”

No one answered.

But this wasn’t coquettishness; it was awkwardness.

Zhang Fei said weakly, “Have you all lost your voices? Give me some sort of reaction.”

Ye Zuqia suddenly asked, “Suppose the Song Code of Punishments explicitly stated that robbery is legal. Would that count as law?”

Everyone’s eyes lit up. It was a good question.

Robbery being legal clearly contradicted Zhang Fei’s general definition of law of the legal system. Yet if it were written in the Song Code of Punishments, it would be statutory text.

Wasn’t that law?

Zhang Fei countered, “What do you think?”

Ye Zuqia said, “If it’s written in the Song Code of Punishments, then of course it counts!”

Zhang Fei turned to the rest of them. “Do you all agree?”

They exchanged glances and nodded slightly.

Even though they were confused, they had to stick together.

Zhang Fei asked, “Tell me. If we were to make robbery legal, how should we phrase the provision in the Song Code of Punishments?”

“Simply state it directly,” Ye Zuqia said.

Zhang Fei asked, “Then what about the crime of robbery?”

Ye Zuqia replied, “Just erase it.”

Zhang Fei said, “If you erase that crime, wouldn’t robbery already be legal? Do we really need to specify that it is legal?”

“……!”

Ye Zuqia was getting a bit dizzy and said, “Not writing it down works too.”

Zhang Fei asked, “Then if we erase all the offenses listed in the Song Code of Punishments, does that mean stealing, fraud, swindling, beating, looting, killing, and so on all become legal? Would you call that law?”

Ye Zuqia blinked.

Zhang Fei said, “How did the First and Second emperors of our dynasty describe the laws during the period of chaos before the founding of the dynasty?”

“The order was broken; there was no law under heaven.”

“Correct.”

Zhang Fei said, “Looting being legal does not need to be specified. That is because all it takes is reaching a state of lawlessness. Discussing law within a state of lawlessness is like taking off your pants to fart. Now let me ask you the reverse. If the court stipulates that when you are on the verge of starving to death, you may steal a bun to survive, and the court will not hold you responsible for it—is this systemic law, or the law of Legalism?”

Ye Zuqia thought for a long time. “The law… of Legalism.”

“Hm?”

“Systemic law?”

“Hm?”

“This student does not know.”

Ye Zuqia was completely confused. At that moment, he felt like a fool.

Zhang Fei felt both amused and exasperated. He continued, “First, this law would belong to Confucianism; Legalism would not stipulate it this way. Second, it depends on which office issues the decree. If it is an imperial edict from His Majesty, and it is even written into the legal commentaries, then it is a systemic law. This is because the regulation contains many prerequisites. Based on these conditions, it can actually be seen as a form of self-protection, or even common sense. After all, human life is paramount. If you lose a steamed bun, you can make another one. But if a person dies, they are truly gone.

Of course, if one were to actually legislate on this, it would be extremely complex. There are many determinations involved, and it is very difficult to gather evidence. Therefore, the court is unlikely to do so. This is also one of the reasons we study the law.

However, if the Chamber of State Affairs were to issue this decree for a specific region or a specific period, then it would be a matter of Legalism.”

Shangguan Jun suddenly asked, “If a Legalist law conflicts with a systemic law, which one takes precedence?”

Everyone was stunned.

The question caused many people to fall into deep thought.

Zhang Fei did not answer directly but counter-asked, “Suppose the Chamber of State Affairs decreed in the capital that anyone who is on the verge of starvation may rob without committing a crime. If you were a judicial official and encountered this case, how would you rule?”

Shangguan Jun frowned and pondered for a while, then said, “I… I probably wouldn’t pursue his liability either.”

Zhang Fei said, “Then what about the victim who was robbed?”

Shangguan Jun replied, “I would compensate him on behalf of the government.”

Zhang Fei said, “But the Chamber of State Affairs did not stipulate that compensation must be paid.”

Shangguan Jun said, “But if we did not, no one would ever dare to sell steamed buns on the street again.”

Zhang Fei nodded with a smile. “Not pursuing his liability implies that liability exists. Compensating the victim’s losses is a transfer of that responsibility. And the reason for all of this stems from systemic law. Repaying a debt and paying with one’s life for taking another’s—these are principles of heaven and earth. So, tell me: which is greater, the law of Legalism, or systemic law?”

Shangguan Jun said, “Systemic law is greater.”

Zhang Fei immediately rolled his eyes. “You got that wrong too! Of course it’s the law of Legalism that is greater! Oh my goodness……!”

Shangguan Jun was left with a face full of question marks.

I was just following your logic. Are these all wrong?

Are you kidding me?

“Actually, this example and this question are completely unrelated. In any case, the law of Legalism is greater. How could it possibly be systemic law that is greater?”

Zhang Fei smiled. “If the law of Legalism is superior, then how did those cruel rulers, incompetent emperors, and corrupt officials come to be? That is common sense, you know. Anyone who has read history knows it.”

The moment these words left his mouth, the classroom fell silent.

The hands of many scholar-officials trembled slightly.

Cruel rulers? Incompetent emperors? Corrupt officials?

Who was he insulting?

Was this something one could even say?

Everyone turned to look at Emperor Zhao Xu.